Philly B-3 Organ

An Interview with "doodlin' Lounge's" Pete Fallico

When it comes to the Hammond B-3, Pete Fallico is “the man.” The host of “Doodlin’ Lounge,” an all-organ-all-the-time radio show on Santa Cruz’s KUSP, Fallico is steeped in B-3 lore and loves to share his passion. This interview with Pete touches on why the Philly B-3 organ style, as exemplified by Joey DeFrancesco and Trudy Pitts, is such an integral part of jazz history.

Give me a little context on what makes Philly such an important city for soul jazz and B-3 jazz.

Well the genesis of jazz organ, of course, is found between two important people: Wild Bill Davis and Jimmy Smith. Wild Bill Davis was the one who played with Duke Ellington, Louis Jordan, and Count Basie. He started out as a pianist and an arranger, but after the war getting this notion of developing an organ trio. Literally, taking the organ our of the funeral homes and out of the skating rinks and bringing it into clubs and telling club owners “Look, you don’t need to hire 18 people. You just hire me, my drummer, and my guitar player.

Jimmy Smith took what Bill Davis started and renovated it, and became the innovator of the modern jazz organ sound. Jimmy Smith was the first to create a soloing platform, like Louis Armstrong did with the trumpet. Bill Davis’ concept was big band; Jimmy Smith’s concept was soloing. So out of Philadelphia you’ve got these wonderful old, old people from the Wild Bill Davis Era, including Bill Doggett, and then, of course Jimmy Smith. Trudy Pitts, also coming from Philadelphia, was right in the thick of it, as was Shirley Scott.  Trudy Pitts’ first organ combo was, believe it or not, with [drummer] Charlie Persip, and John Coltrane. So you’ve got the crucible of jazz organ in Philadelphia.

Was there something that was intrinsically working class about Philadelphia that made soul jazz viable not only as a musical form but as a form of entertainment, where people would pack these houses to hear this music?

Well, you know I wasn’t there. I’m a student of all this. My impression is, it wasn’t just Philly: it was Newark, New Jersey, it was Wilmington, Delaware, it was Hartford, Connecticut, and all these little towns with blue collar workers, where people would come off the job, and they would go into these bars and chicken joints—this really was the chitlin’ circuit—and listen to organ music because it was the most popular form of music for the people. While other people were listening to Brubeck and Stan Getz, these guys were listening to Jack McDuff and Jimmy McGriff, and “Groove” Holmes. So, yeah, I always have thought of it as the blue collar, the workingman’s kind of music. And that, of course, has contributed to the notion that it never received any respect, it was never legitimized in the “real” jazz world because it was always in that chitlin’ circuit environment.

Do you think someone like Larry Young shifted that perception a little bit?

He certainly brought it to a different level. Larry Young came out of the Jimmy Smith bag. But he was a student of John Coltrane and he wanted to go outside with the organ, he wanted to do what Coltrane was doing. Michael Cuscuna told me something that was very, very important. He was trying to do this with an antiquated instrument. It was an old battle horse. Here people were on synthesizers and more modern keyboards and Larry Young was trying to do this with an old instrument. [Cuscuna] feels that might have been the reason why Larry wasn’t accepted as he should have been.

What Was Trudy Pitts innovation?

Trudy Pitts comes from a very classically trained piano style. She brought that to the Hammond organ. Plus the fact that she’s able to get as greasy as any of the guys that are working. She could really get funky.

Talk to me a little about Joey DeFrancesco. I know he was mentored by Jimmy Smith.

The way I look at Joey D, he was given more talent than he deserves. I mean, that guy is just a phenomenon. He’s one of these guys that can tell you the notes if you dropped your car keys. He’s got that kind of ear.

Just perfect Pitch.

Yeah, and if you play a little tune for him he’s got it. I remember when Pancho Sanchez wanted him to come into Yoshi’s and rehearse with the group first and Joey said, “Nah, don’t worry. I got it.” And it’s true, as soon as he heard Poncho’s heads—boom! he was off. The arrangements are in his brain. 

So Joey, first and foremost, is one of the most gifted musicians I’ve ever heard in my life. He’s able to just sit down with tremendous facility and play anything he wants. I see him as the comprehensive jazz organist: he can play in all genres; he can be as lyrical, be as passionate, be as funky as you need; he can switch over from one style to another. He’s just got that gift.

Yes, he does come from Jimmy Smith, but he has developed his own style and he has developed his own sound. He likes a pure, clean sound and his fingering is so precise that it almost begs for that clarity. There’s nothing sloppy, there are no missed notes, everything he wants to say is right there, the first time. It’s scary.

People around the office have turned me on to some of the stuff he’s done with John McLaughlin, Bireli Lagrene, Elvin Jones…

There’s something on You Tube right now with Elvin Jones, John McLaughlin and Joey takes about a seven or eight minute solo that is just mind boggling.

I have a quote on tape from Elvin Jones, when I interviewed him, that Joey…How did he say it? He says: “Nobody has played like Larry Young or even come close—until I heard Joey DeFrancesco.” It’s not that Joey copies Larry’s style, but Elvin understood that level of musicianship, and Joey’s got it. Yeah, he’s a phenomenon. He’s the consummate jazz organ player of our time.

Joey knows that this is a style of American music that never did receive the credit that it deserved. The organ combo is never going to beat out the piano trio, and Joey knows that. But he’s doing everything he can to legitimize it and to gain back the respect that it deserves.

Do you think that lack of respect goes back to the same idea that this was more of a blue-collar art form?

The Hammond B-3 is a black instrument, if you will. It came from the black churches. It’s associated with Rhythm & Blues and Gospel. And even though it was invented by Lawrence Hammond, who didn’t want it to go into popular music. When radio stations started to commercialize the Hammond Organ for their soap operas he was offended. He thought it belonged in the churches with the pipe organ. It was the black sound that really capitalized on the Hammond B-3. There were white artists, to be sure, Jesse Crawford, Ethel Smith, later on Lenny Dee and all these wonderful guys that played in a more pop direction. But Jimmy Smith took it out of the blues and into the jazz and it was like from that point on in your face kind of music.

You know, I go back to what my friend Bob Porter wrote in the early DownBeat issues, and they characterize the organ as overbearing and loud and out of place—an elephant in the china shop kind of thing. Until Jimmy Smith showed the finesse and other people started to show the dynamics of it. That’s what Joey does. He really shows the versatility of that instrument. And it’s not a big elephant stomping through the jungle. It can be a delicate instrument at the hands of the right person. You can reduce it to a simple flute sound, you can make it sound like a piccolo solo or you can move it up to a full orchestral sound and just blow the house away. Houston Person told me years and years ago that it’s an amazing feeling to be soloing in front of this thing because of the energy and the power that’s pushing you. Some pianists can do that, but they just don’t have the sustaining power of the organ.

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