WHAT'S HAPPENING NEXT?: TWENTY YEARS OF THE SFJAZZ COLLECTIVE

Twenty years ago, SFJAZZ announced that it would establish its own all-star house band under the leadership of tenor saxophonist Joshua Redman. It would be called the SFJAZZ Collective, and it would feature some of the foremost instrumentalists in jazz, most notably vibraphonist Bobby Hutcherson, a towering improviser and composer whose presence brought instant gravitas to the project. Randall Kline, the founder of SFJAZZ, said the group would devote itself to “creating new work,” demonstrating that “jazz is a living, breathing thing.” Redman called the eight-piece group a “composers’ collective” — “a largish small band or a smallish large band” — and a “laboratory” and “workshop” for bringing new repertoire into the jazz continuum. Hutcherson remarked that by founding the group, SFJAZZ was moving “closer and closer to the passion and the thrill of presenting this art.”

It was a major step for the San Francisco-based jazz organization, helping it to match strides with New York’s Jazz at Lincoln Center, whose big band was (and is) led by trumpeter Wynton Marsalis. Over the past two decades, the Collective has created a mountain of original compositions along with scores of arrangements of iconic tunes by everyone from Ornette Coleman to Michael Jackson and Antônio Carlos Jobim.

The latest edition of the group — seven instrumentalists led by tenor saxophonist Chris Potter — has just completed a tour of Asia and will soon perform four shows (Nov. 2-5) at the SFJAZZ Center in San Francisco. A brand new, extended composition, tentatively titled “20th Anniversary Suite,” will be the centerpiece of the performances. Each of the band’s seven members has composed a movement of the seven-part suite, which Potter describes as “cinematic.” San Francisco has become a second home to the group’s members, who draw on their impressions of the city — its streets, its neighborhoods, its moods — and also pay tribute to some of their heroes, including Wayne Shorter, Chick Corea, and Thelonious Monk. Brief transitions create “moments of scene change” throughout the 60-minute piece, Potter says, “where there is a feeling of, `Wow, what’s going to happen next?’”

The group’s fans have been hanging on that question — “What’s going to happen next?” — ever since Kline and Redman announced the group’s formation in 2003, and ever since it first performed in March 2004. The group is pleasingly unpredictable. In addition to creating brand new works, it devoted its first seven seasons to rearranging compositions by strictly jazz composers: Coleman, John Coltrane, Herbie Hancock, Monk, Shorter, McCoy Tyner and Horace Silver. In 2011, it expanded the field, arranging songs by Stevie Wonder, and in the years since it has reinterpreted music by Corea, Joe Henderson, Jackson, and Jobim. In 2019, it rearranged and performed a couple of groundbreaking albums from 1969: Miles Davis’s In a Silent Way and Sly and the Family Stone’s Stand! Two years ago, it focused entirely on original compositions related to George Floyd and the Black Lives Matter movement, the global pandemic, and climate issues. A year ago, it emphasized new material and reimagined classics — for instance, music director Potter’s unlikely mashup of Billie Holiday’s “God Bless The Child” and Earth, Wind & Fire’s “That’s The Way Of The World.”

Many of the most respected instrumentalists in jazz have passed through the group. Its drummers have included Brian Blade, Eric Harland, Obed Calvaire, and Kendrick Scott. Its vibraphonists have included Hutcherson (who played with the group from 2004-2007 and died in 2016), Stefon Harris, and Warren Wolf. Its tenor saxophonists practically define the instrument’s recent development: Redman, Joe Lovano, Mark Turner, David Sánchez, and Potter.

The Collective is “a monster ensemble, every year,” says Redman. “Some of my favorite musicians on the planet have been in it, and continue to be in it.”

With that kind of history — not to mention 20 albums, mostly on the in-house SFJAZZ Records label — Executive Artistic Director Terence Blanchard hopes it’s time for the group to land a GRAMMY nomination or award: “That would bring so much attention to the organization and to the band,” says Blanchard, the trumpeter and composer who took over the SFJAZZ driver’s seat this year when Kline retired after 40 years. “The whole idea behind the Collective is to give those guys a chance to make their own music and take it on the road, and what better way to further that than to get behind it with a powerful label and additional marketing?”

To help mark this 20th anniversary season, we spoke to three of the Collective’s founding members: Redman, pianist Renee Rosnes, and alto saxophonist Miguel Zenón. (In addition to Hutcherson and Blade, the original band also included trumpeter Nicholas Payton, trombonist Josh Roseman, and bassist Robert Hurst).

We also spoke with Chris Potter, now in his third season as the SFJAZZ Collective’s music director. (The current ensemble’s other members are Sánchez, Wolf, Scott, trumpeter Mike Rodriguez, pianist Ed Simon, and bassist Matt Brewer.)

We hope these interviews will serve as windows into the rich and ongoing history of the band.

JOSHUA REDMAN (tenor saxophonist, Collective member from 2004-2007)

RS: When you think about the Collective, what jumps to mind? Certain people? Certain moments?

JR: The whole thing was cool! I have fond memories of being a part of the group, helping to conceive it and then putting it together. Of course, it was my first chance to play with Bobby Hutcherson and that was a transformative experience — magical, not only to be able to play with him, but to work so closely with him, just to be around him. He was such a wondrous musician, but also a spiritual force. It sounds cliche, but he just spread so much positivity and joy.

RS: Over the years, I’ve heard about the “Hutcherson hug” that preceded rehearsals or performances.

JR: That was the first thing you did when you saw Bobby. He wanted to make sure everyone got a hug — before a note is played or a word is said, you get the hug.

RS: Miguel Zenón was the junior member of the original band. I think he surprised a lot of people — like, who is this young guy? Did you know Miguel prior to the Collective?

JR: I knew who he was. I had heard him, and I knew he was a monster player, and I knew that he was a pretty serious composer. I don’t think I realized the prodigiousness of his compositional talent. Compositionally, I think he’s as great a composer as has come along in jazz in the last few generations. He really is deep. I don’t write anything like him, but getting to be around him and to play his music — it has been a profound influence on me compositionally, for sure. Every piece he writes — a lot of them are gauntlets just to try and make it through, and each is brilliant in its own way. That piece he wrote for the first season — “Lingala” — that one really blew my mind.

RS: What else do you remember about the origins of the group? Did you and Randall Kline have conversations or planning sessions?

JR: In the late ‘90s, I’d been on the board at SFJAZZ, and there was already talk about the possibility of putting a house band together, an ensemble that would bear the organization’s name. And there were many different models that we could have followed, but one that I was particularly keen on — and I think Randall was, too — was to have an ensemble that was dedicated to the creation of new music. We imagined it as a kind of workshop for composers, a collective workshop.

RS: In the beginning, you referred to it as a laboratory.

JR: That was the goal. That was the vision. And then to be able to actually make music with so many of the greatest musicians on the scene — to be there with Miguel and Nicholas and Brian and Bob and Renee. What can I say?

RS: You’ve played with the Rolling Stones and with Ornette Coleman, and you’ve led so many great groups on your own. Where does the Collective fit in? Was it unique?

JR: Getting to create so much new music — that was unique. And there was a certain luxury that existed with that group, and it exists to this day: We got to rehearse! That’s kind of rare in jazz. And every year we’d choose one of the great composers situated within the jazz language, and we’d create original arrangements of their work. That part of the model has been a bit of a journey. We started with a house arranger, the brilliant Gil Goldstein, whose work was incredible during those first three seasons. But at a certain point, it felt like the band members themselves needed to do their own original arrangements. That was a path we wanted to explore, and it was in our fourth season, in 2007, that we did Monk’s music, and that was the first time the arrangements came exclusively from the members of the group.

For me, the most important thing was always original composition. But the arrangements were cool. It was cool to do a deep dive into Ornette and Trane and Herbie and Monk. And after I left, they did Wayne Shorter and Joe Henderson and McCoy and Chick — and Stevie Wonder. They started to go outside jazz, and that’s cool, too.

RS: That’s kind of a heavy lift, being asked to rearrange pieces by Ornette, Coltrane, and all the others.

JR: When you’re doing arrangements, there’s always a certain balance that’s being struck between honoring the spirit and the vibe and intention of the original work, and then doing a fresh take on it that’s modern and represents your own perspective. Everyone has a different balance point with that. It’s possible that as the ensemble evolved — I mean, I wasn’t poring over all the different records, but I would hear the group play from time to time through the years. And sometimes I thought, “This is great, but did it really need to be arranged that much? Did it need to be that complicated?” But everyone has their own balance point; I think it’s worked out! Unquestionably it’s been a group that’s had some of the greatest working players in jazz. It’s a monster ensemble, every year. Some of my favorite musicians on the planet have been in it, and continue to be in it.

RS: Did you forge musical bonds that continued after you left the Collective?

JR: That first year, Miguel was one of the only ones with whom I hadn’t had any prior musical relationship. But Blade — I’d already been playing with him for a long time, and Nicholas and I had played a bunch in the ‘90s. Those are all deep connections that came into the group. And then when Eric (Harland) and Matt (Penman, the bassist) came into the band (in 2005, its second season), that was really exciting and that ended up being a bass-drum tandem that lasted a long time for me. I’d already known Eric and had played with him a fair amount, but Matt — I’d never played with him before the Collective. And Matt is like Miguel, he’s another compositional genius, and that, too, has had a deep influence on me. Eric and Matt were in my bands for years after that, and together we also had the group James Farm. Those are deep musical relationships.

RENEE ROSNES (pianist, a member from 2004-09)

RS: I’d like to hear some of your stories and feelings about the Collective. What jumps to mind as you look back? Certain people? Bobby Hutcherson? What are your earliest memories of the band?

RR: Being a member of the SFJAZZ Collective for six years was a unique artistic experience, and I’m proud and honored to have been a part of all the great music that came out of that period. I loved the alchemy of all the various players and how we collaborated with one another. From the start, Joshua Redman was a very effective artistic director. He had the wisdom to give us the room to be ourselves, leading only when necessary, and it made for a great working environment conducive to an evolving band.

It was a luxury to have focused rehearsal time which made it possible to delve deeply into each piece. To discover everyone’s new compositions together and go through the process of shaping and honing each arrangement from day to day was powerful. When we began to tour and perform, it was gratifying to share the new music with audiences.

RS: Tell me about Bobby Hutcherson.

JR: Having such a giant as Bobby Hutcherson in the band was a gift. I had been a member of his quartet for many years before the Collective existed, and having the opportunity to play other repertoire with him in a larger context was wonderful. His generous spirit was uplifting to be around on and off the bandstand. Of course, Bobby’s playing was always masterful. It was as if there was a beam of light shining down on him whenever he was behind the vibes. I once heard him say, "Never worry about where the next note is coming from, because it will always present itself if you wait for it." I miss him a lot.

RS: What was it like to compose new pieces for the group — and to arrange pieces from the jazz canon?

RR: I enjoyed composing and arranging for the Collective because the musical personalities were so distinct. Each player had incredible virtuosity, a personal concept and sound, and a complete box of tools, so to speak, so it was inspiring to write for such a skilled ensemble.

Tackling the music of Ornette Coleman that first season was interesting from the perspective of the piano because his music is really complete without a comping instrument. I had to find a space within the context of the octet. It was like we were simultaneously painting a canvas, and I was hyper aware of the gradients of light: when to add a bit more color or when to take a breath. A stand-out from the Coleman repertoire was “Una Muy Bonita,” which you can check out on the 2005 Nonesuch album. I remember loving the infectious groove that Brian and Bob set up.

RS: Describe some other highlights from your six years in the group.

RR: An unforgettable moment occurred in February 2006. The band was in the middle of morning rehearsal and Joshua received a call with the news that his wife Jennifer had gone into labor with their first child. We were delighted to learn the next morning that they had a healthy baby boy named Jadon. Joshua was even back at rehearsal the next day at 9am! How’s that for dedication?

RS: Another highlight?

RR: In 2008, the chosen master composer was Wayne Shorter. Having once been a member of his band, I had some insight into his magical mind. Both of the arrangements I created for the Collective — “Diana” and “Footprints” — were wholly inspired by the experience of performing those compositions with him.

RS: These days, you’re in another collective ensemble: ARTEMIS, which records for Blue Note. What are the parallels between it and the SFJAZZ Collective?

RR: There are some parallels between the way ARTEMIS and the SFJAZZ Collective work.

Similarly, ARTEMIS is a band of prominent bandleaders and composers on the scene, and each of us contributes arrangements and compositions to the ensemble. We all have extremely busy schedules as performing artists, educators, and in some cases, also parenting children, so we have to carve out time well in advance to ensure we can tour and record. I guess the biggest contrast is that ARTEMIS is not subsidized by an arts organization — which basically means no commissioned works, no paid rehearsal time, and no contracted salaries.

RS: You’re the only woman instrumentalist who’s ever been a member of the Collective. Would you comment on that? (Note: Vocalist Gretchen Parlato was a member of the group during the 2021-22 season.)

RR: This is a difficult subject to talk about. I find it perplexing that I’ve been the only female instrumentalist in the 20-year existence of the ensemble. Certainly there are many female musicians deserving of the opportunity to be a part of the SFJAZZ Collective. I can only surmise the reason there hasn’t been, is that the art form in general is male dominated. Each player invited into the Collective is chosen by the existing members of the band. Therefore when a musician leaves, it seems that no remaining member has opted for a woman to be the next saxophonist, trumpeter, trombonist, vibraphonist, guitarist, pianist, bassist or drummer. I don’t think this is a calculated decision, but rather a lack of awareness, plus there’s also the natural proclivity to recommend one’s closest musician friends, who in most cases, are going to be other males. It's not because there are no worthy female instrumentalists in the world in 2023.

How is this cycle to be broken? As Wayne Shorter once told me, “Music transcends gender," and he was one of the first major leaders to really champion and incorporate women instrumentalists into his own groups. The great drummer and founder of the Berklee Institute of Jazz and Gender Justice, Terri Lyne Carrington — we played together with Wayne — said it just right: “The idea that we can’t move forward correctly until we eliminate the patriarchy is not in conflict with the idea that there has been a succession of great men that did very great work in jazz. It’s because the music will never reach its full potential until there’s equity in terms of who is creating it.”

MIGUEL ZENÓN (alto saxophonist, member from 2004-2018)

RS: What was it like for you to be a founding member of this  Absolutely. One of the things that made the band really interesting was that as people came in and out of the group, the music and the sound of the band would change a bit, but the whole vibe of the group would change, too. Certain personalities connected with other individuals, and one of the great experiences for me was getting to live through all those configurations, not only musically, but personality-wise. Some bands were tighter musically, and some were tighter in terms of just hanging out a lot. It was all great! The band with Etienne (Charles, the trumpeter) and Warren (Wolf) had a certain feel. The band with Joe (Lovano) and Dave (Douglas, the trumpeter) had another feel. It was all unique.

RS: Can you talk more about the evolution of the group? Through your 14 years, what stayed the same and what changed?

MZ: There was sort of a shift after the first three years. The idea for the band was really Randall’s and Josh’s, and when Randall first reached out to me, he said, “There’s going to be this unit, and it’ll be a composer’s group and we’ll be able to write music and perform.” And Josh was the musical director. He was running rehearsals and he would announce the tunes on stage, and it all worked out great — Josh is amazing, doing all that. But once he left the band, there was a shift, and we thought, “Do we want that to continue?” After having an official musical director for the longest time – and of course Chris (Potter) is doing that today — it started to fall on some of the others who’d been in the group for a while. Like it might be me and Renee (Rosnes), or then me and Robin (Eubanks, the trombonist). And that for me felt really, really unique, because I’d never been in a situation like that before where it really was a collective. If you’re rehearsing someone’s piece – that person is running the rehearsal or announcing the tune on stage, and the responsibilities got passed around, so it really was a collective.

The first three years we actually had a house arranger, Gil Goldstein, who is amazing. But over time, it started to feel like the members of the band might have their own really specific ways of arranging and incorporating their ideas into how we approached these musical giants whose tunes we were dealing with. In the first three years, it was Ornette, Coltrane, and Herbie (Hancock). So the fourth year, the Monk year, was the first year where we started doing our own arrangements, and it was a really important shift to the DNA of the band. Because suddenly our new original tunes and our arranging of these older tunes were equally important, and that became a really important aspect of what the band was about.

The other thing is that, besides the fellowship that we had, and the band gelling musically and personally – the idea of having these super long rehearsal periods was totally unique. That’s really what this band is about to me. You get all this time to put this music together, and you can really, really fine-tune pieces, and that’s really what made the band what it was, and is.

RS: Everybody talks about the first year. Tell me about another edition of the group that stands out for you.

MZ: Okay — but I’ll start with just a little more about the first year! It was amazing because it was the first year and because of the members of the band. It was a mystery to everyone, really, in terms of how it was going to work out. There wasn’t a process yet for doing anything — in theory, this is all going to happen, but we don’t really know. How’s the music going to be put together and how’s the tour going to work out? But the composition of the band was so unique, because you had this incredible senior member — Bobby — and you had Josh (Redman) and Nick and Renee and Bob and Brian, and I was kind of the young guy and (trombonist) Josh Roseman was kind of in the middle. And I remember the rehearsals — going through the tunes, and everyone’s approach was so different. Not only the tunes were different, but everyone’s ideas about how to rehearse were different. And I remember we had all these conversations about how we’d put the shows together and should we really rehearse this much? I think that first year, we rehearsed the most.

But then, if I’m going to move ahead a few years, another version of the band comes to mind that was so strong, musically. It was the Stevie Wonder year (2011, the band’s eighth season) with Stefon (Harris) and Mark Turner and Avishai (Cohen, the trumpeter) and Robin (Eubanks) and Ed (Simon) and Matt (Brewer) and Eric (Harland). That band, in terms of personalities, it wasn’t like a natural connection. It was like a lot of little groups inside the band. But in terms of the music, I feel that maybe it was the strongest. Because I felt that with that band, everyone was pushing each other constantly: “Let’s get better.” Someone would write a chart, and there would always be suggestions: “Let’s do this, let’s do that.” And onstage, too, we were always pushing each other. So I felt that band represented a really, really high level of writing and playing onstage. We did Horace Silver’s tunes and Stevie Wonder. It was really, really strong and I felt we had a natural connection with the music.

Similarly, when Obed (Calvaire) and Warren (Wolf) and Sean (Jones, the trumpeter) came into the band, that was probably the closest in terms of the personalities. That band was like a glove. That band just fit together, and we all hung together all the time.

RS: Have the bonds that you forged in the group sustained themselves?

MZ: Most definitely. I feel so close with so many members of the band, beyond the band. We’ve all collaborated after leaving the group. Like I saw Joe Lovano recently; we were doing this little master class in Boston. And our conversations — they always go back to, “Hey, man, do you remember that time we did that tour?” It always goes back to the Collective. It happens a lot, like with Josh or Renee or Brian or Nick. We start to reminisce about it, and there’s just something that’s always bonding us, like forever.

RS: You’re 46 now. Where does the Collective fit into your career? Looking back, how do you weigh the experience?

MZ: I’ve played with so many people in so many great bands. But I would have to think very hard and probably wouldn’t find another experience that has been as meaningful musically, for me, as the Collective. Because I was there for a very long time, and I got to write a lot of music and play with a lot of my favorite musicians. And I also got to develop a really strong relationship with the organization, with SFJAZZ, and with Randall. I just felt like SFJAZZ was my home. It was really easy to feel cared for. I always felt that it was home for me — the band and the organization. And I’m eternally grateful to Randall for taking a chance on me. I was a young guy. I’d made a couple of records, but I hadn’t really done a lot. But he took a chance on me and it kind of changed my life. I’d say it was probably the most enriching experience I’ve had as a musician up to now.

CHRIS POTTER (tenor saxophonist, music director since 2021)

RS: The Collective has been touring Asia and now you’re coming home to San Francisco. How did the band’s members compose this new hour-long, seven-movement suite that you’re performing? Each of the seven band members composed a movement; it sounds ambitious. I know you had a couple of weeks to rehearse, but still – what was the composing process like? How did the group turn these seven separate movements into a single unified composition?

CP: We communicated before meeting to try and make sure that there was a diversity of moods — it wouldn’t have worked if everyone had written a ballad or a fast tune. And since we had access to each other’s scores online, we could use themes from one another’s pieces. We didn’t really know how we’d put it together until we met in San Francisco for rehearsal. We found an order of movements that we liked. Then we figured out transitional sections to join the pieces, sometimes referring back to previous movements for connecting material. In this way, although we each came up with our pieces on our own, I feel there is a surprising cohesiveness to the suite. I think this nicely highlights the collective ethos of the ensemble, a hallmark of the group over its 20 years.

RS: Will you be playing some other pieces, in addition to the suite?

CP: There are some new arrangements of tunes written by composers who have been honored in the past. For example, I wrote an arrangement of Stevie Wonder’s “You’ve Got It Bad Girl” and Warren (Wolf) pieced together three Miles Davis tunes (“In a Silent Way,” “Directions,” and “Nardis”) into one new arrangement. And there are some adaptations of arrangements from years past for this instrumentation.

RS: What does it mean to be part of this band, which has such a heavy history? Are the guys familiar with the group’s past editions and of the 20-year lineage you’re extending?

CP: We’re all very aware of what a special situation this is. It is very rare to have a band of this caliber — organized as a collective of strong individual voices — that’s able to develop interesting, challenging work to full fruition, due to the amount of rehearsal time and the performance opportunities available. And of course we’re aware of previous incarnations of the band — by and large these people are friends of ours! The fact that it’s been continuing for 20 years and shows no sign of stopping is definitely worth celebrating.

RS: The Collective has featured a number of distinguished tenor saxophonists over the years. You’re following in their footsteps: Joshua Redman was in the group at the beginning. Then came Joe Lovano. Then came Mark Turner. Then came David Sánchez — who’s still in the band.

Can you speak briefly about each of them? Tell me about Josh Redman.

CP: All of those folks are musicians I’ve known for a long time and worked with in many situations.

I think I met Josh at the Thelonious Monk Saxophone Competition when he first came on the scene. I’ve always very much admired his abilities on the saxophone. But it’s more than that. It’s also his ability to structure a concert or an album, to create a strong cohesive statement — an extended statement. It’s a special talent that he’s extremely good at, and it helps him reach a lot of people.

Josh has always had a gift for telling a story when he plays. There is always a point to what he is saying musically — he never just plays “licks” or disconnected phrases, and I’ve always admired this very much. He is equally well spoken personally, and he has always advocated very effectively for this music, which we very much need. He’s also a true friend, just a great guy, and a true fellow saxophone nerd!

RS: What about Joe Lovano?

CP: Joe’s a little bit older. I remember the first time that I played on stage with Joe. I was on the road with Paul Motian and the Electric Bebop Band and we had a night off in Paris. Somehow we ran into Joe and he invited everyone to sit in with his group. I think he was already signed to Blue Note, and, of course, I’d heard him play. But just being next to him on stage – I was maybe 22, 23 years old, and I really got something special from it. Standing next to him was a lesson that’s difficult to describe. I could hear how much of a musical identity he had. It was, “Oh! I see. He’s put in the time. He really loves this music. He’s spent his life thinking about it, and listening, and just playing and playing and playing.”

And that’s the path. He’s someone that I really admire. I feel like he helped show me what the way is.

RS: Mark Turner?

CP: I just really love how he plays. I feel he’s really found his own voice on the horn. It’s a very special sound where you know it’s Mark, and, again, his devotion is what shows up. Besides just having a very strong concept and a very deep grasp of music and knowing what the possibilities are on the saxophone, he’s taken that and he’s applied it to such a level. I know it’s through many, many hours of work. He’s just always shedding and you can hear it — that his sound is so developed, all the ideas are so highly developed, that it just couldn’t be anyone but Mark. And there’s a certain calm about Mark as a person that he’s tried to cultivate in his life, and that comes out in his music, too. It’s a spiritual calmness that draws so many people to his music. I know it draws me.

RS: How about David Sánchez?

CP: I think we first played together on a Ryan Kisor date in the early ‘90s. David is just such a beautiful spirit. Every note he plays is after a lifetime of devotion to the horn. He’s here every morning, shedding. He’s working at it. And he’s at the level where every note he plays — when I hear it, it’s like a beautiful, warm David sound. It’s like a smile. He’s just a phenomenal musician and a great friend. It’s been so much fun to be on the road with him. That’s been a highlight. As saxophonists, we don’t always get to travel with other saxophone players. So finally, I can talk about reeds and mouthpieces with someone who actually cares.

The SFJAZZ Collective performs 11/2-5. Tickets and more information is available here. The Friday 11/3 performance will be broadcast as part of SFJAZZ At Home's Fridays Live series. More information here.

A staff writer at SFJAZZ, Richard Scheinin is a lifelong journalist. He was the San Jose Mercury News' classical music and jazz critic for more than a decade and has profiled scores of public figures, from Ike Turner to Tony La Russa and the Dalai Lama.